Tech

First Look: Pyga Stage MX and Plus Five chain line concept

By Nick · 74 comments

The Pyga Stage MX is the company’s entry into the world of full carbon 29er cross-country / marathon bikes. The Stage MX, though, challenges conventional frame design and cross-country / marathon oriented geometry. Starting with a clean slate they haven’t gone for any new crazy suspension designs. Instead sticking to their tried and tested platform with some slight kinematic changes to better suit race performance. What they have done is focus on the fundamentals of frame design. The result? Some seemingly subtle, yet potentially revolutionary tweaks.

Pyga Stage MX 1.jpg

Meet the Pyga Stage MX, a full carbon dual suspension 29er marathon bike.

Slack ‘n Long (or Low)

The Stage MX (Marathon Cross Country) will be Pyga’s first bike to feature the new SNL (slack ‘n low or slack ‘n long, depending on whether you’re speaking to Pat or Mark). This means a slackish head angle (68.5° on a 120mm fork and 69.5° on a 100m fork), longer reach and a shorter stem, to make it feel more like a trail bike on technical terrain. Pyga reassure us that the bike still maintains the overall efficiency and power transfer needed for a marathon bike.

PYGA Stage MX - 12.2-1.jpg

Pyga liken many top marathon bikes ridden by everyday riders to F1 cars: designed for top professionals and can be more than a handful to pilot, when a Lamborghini would be better suited for most people. The Stage MX is said to be stable in corners, grounded at high speed, yet still nimble and light in steering.

“Plus Five” rear end offset to improve chain angle on 1×11

The biggest deviation from conventional design is what Pyga are calling Plus Five. A re-engineering of the rear end to correct what they believe is a huge flaw in bikes, the chainline offset. What they have done is offset the whole rear end of the Stage MX by 5mm on the drive side and in doing so reducing the chainline offset from 49mm to 44mm.

Why the change? Patrick Morewood explained that when the 49mm chainline offset was introduced mountain bikes were using 8 speed cassettes. The measurements then meant that the chainline was centred but as 9, 10 and 11 speed cassettes were introduced the centre chainline has shifted. The result on an 11 speed drivetrain with a 49mm offset is that the centre chainline is out by 2 gears.

pyga_stage_mx_chainline.jpgSee how the chain is perfectly aligned with the front chainring when in the centre – 6th gear. Photo: Patrick Morewood
Video showing the the chain line across all the gears on a pre-production Stage MX. Video: Patrick Morewood

What are the advantages of the Plus Five chainline offset?

Better shifting: The centred chainline and less harsh chain angles improve shifting. Poor shifting is often blamed on the drive train manufacturers, when Pyga feel that as frame designers and engineers they should take responsibility by improving the frame design.

Pyga Stage MX 10.jpgPatrick Morewood showing of the smooth shifting.

Less component wear: They were also concerned about excessive wear when riding on the 11th gear (the “granny”) on a 1×11 system. When riding the Stage MX in your 11th gear the chainline is equivalent to being in your 9th gear on other bikes sporting a 49mm chainline. This significantly decreases the angle at which the chain engages the front ring in the top gear.

Improved rear wheel strength: Plus Five also means that the rear wheel is no longer dished, with spoke length being equal on either side of the wheel leading to improved wheel strength.

No need to worry about a new standard, Pyga have emphasised that Plus Five is not a new standard, as all they have changed is their frames. The hubs, axle width and wheels (aside from a change to the dishing) all remain unchanged.

Our short road ride

In our brief test ride around the dark streets of Woodstock, shifting did feel improved across the full width of the cassette and the difference in chainline when in 42T was visible. The fit of the large sized frame was good with the short stem and wide bars installed.

Specifications, that we have learnt so far:

Chain stay length: 440mm

Head angle: 69.5° with a 100m fork; 68.5° with a 120mm fork

12x142mm Rear Axle

Internal routing including adjustable seatpost routing

Mounting for two bottle cages.

The bike is approved for forks up to 130mm travel.

PYGA Stage MX-1.jpg

PYGA Stage MX-4.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 2.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 4.jpg
Pyga Stage MX 3.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 11.jpg

The Stage MX comes with the luxury of space for two bottle cage mounts.

PYGA Stage MX-2.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 16.jpg

PYGA Stage MX-3.jpg
Pyga Stage MX 17.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 19.jpg

Pyga Stage MX 20.jpg

The men responsible for bringing this bike to life, Patrick Morewood, Mark Hopkins, and Cliff Beckett.

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Comments

TheV

Apr 17, 2015, 7:16 PM

It looks a bit like a niner ??? 

 

http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/J9RDO_Tang-1024x640.jpg

 

top rocker very similar, lower pivot a bit different... nothing not seen before??? even the plus 5 not totally new?

TheV

Apr 17, 2015, 7:19 PM

nice looking bike, i'd buy one to give it a try although i don't think in its class (price,travel,carbon) its going to beat a SC or Yeti or or or?

 

it should be a 30% less priced compared to big brands to make it a winner i.m.o

Ryanpmb

Apr 17, 2015, 7:50 PM

would 650b wheels on this bike look out of place ?

 

With some 3.0" tyres...

Ryanpmb

Apr 17, 2015, 7:52 PM

But it's plastic!!!!!!!

 

But yes it will look niiiice next to my 110 and 120!

So you finally got a 110...

rock

Apr 18, 2015, 10:36 AM

wasn't there talk of his frame being made locally?

Matt

Apr 18, 2015, 10:37 AM

 

it not new. Cannondale did this last year with their F-Si 29 Hardtail and the new Scalpel is going the same way. Cannondale use a 6mm offset which I believe they patented so PYGA can't use 6mm. They opted for 5mm and using the gearing aspect as the reason or change which Is pretty smart way of getting around what Cannondale has done.

 

I spoke to Pat about this to get some clarity. Yes, Cannondale have played with offsets as have other manufacturers.

 

Cannondale offset the rear end by 6mm for two reasons:

 

1) Stiffer & stronger rear wheel

2) Better tire clearance and clearance for 1x and 2x upfront with shorter seat stays

 

The front and rear were both offset to the right resulting in little to no change in the chain line - this was not their intention.

 

For Pyga the primary focus was correcting the issues caused by the chainline to improve shifting and reduce component wear. A secondary benefit resulted in the stronger rear wheel due to equal spoke lengths.

 

So while the idea of adjusting the offset on the rear end is by no means new, doing so with the intent of addressing chain line issues is.

NicoBoshoff

Apr 18, 2015, 10:52 AM

Having said that...Ask all the mechanics at the Epic & they will tell you how good that shock is!! flawless.... just saying....

That's funny because I asked Jennie Stenerhag why she didn't fit one on her new Scott favouring the SID, she said she's waiting for them to sort out all the issues that arose from the Epic feedback from Sauser et al.

GoLefty!!

Apr 18, 2015, 11:58 AM

I spoke to Pat about this to get some clarity. Yes, Cannondale have played with offsets as have other manufacturers.

 

Cannondale offset the rear end by 6mm for two reasons:

 

1) Stiffer & stronger rear wheel

2) Better tire clearance and clearance for 1x and 2x upfront with shorter seat stays

 

The front and rear were both offset to the right resulting in little to no change in the chain line - this was not their intention.

 

For Pyga the primary focus was correcting the issues caused by the chainline to improve shifting and reduce component wear. A secondary benefit resulted in the stronger rear wheel due to equal spoke lengths.

 

So while the idea of adjusting the offset on the rear end is by no means new, doing so with the intent of addressing chain line issues is.

 

 

Thanks for getting some insight to that. Basically they needed a different reason to address the same issue. Both companies looked at addressing deficiencies in the 29er rear wheel concept - one being wheel strength the other being a chain line adjustment.

 

Personally I think the reason Pyga has chosen for the offset is a good alternative to the wheel strength issue Cannondale addressed. It is my opinion that the wheel strength issue is a bigger motive than the chain line reason since I've not felt that any 29er suffers from poor shifting due to the chainline being slightly comprised but I can certainly feel rear wheel flex and weakness of really rough terrain at speed. So Pyga's innovation has a nock on effect of changing the rear wheel dish.

 

So kudos to Pyga for getting into this innovation path because I feel the rear wheel and front wheel hub widths are two of the biggest reasons I'm not a fan of 29ers yet. The wheels are just generally too weak. Hopefully this innovation gets the Pyga noticed and puts it on the international marathon bike map.

Matt

Apr 18, 2015, 12:34 PM

Thanks for getting some insight to that. Basically they needed a different reason to address the same issue. Both companies looked at addressing deficiencies in the 29er rear wheel concept - one being wheel strength the other being a chain line adjustment.

 

Personally I think the reason Pyga has chosen for the offset is a good alternative to the wheel strength issue Cannondale addressed. It is my opinion that the wheel strength issue is a bigger motive than the chain line reason since I've not felt that any 29er suffers from poor shifting due to the chainline being slightly comprised but I can certainly feel rear wheel flex and weakness of really rough terrain at speed. So Pyga's innovation has a nock on effect of changing the rear wheel dish.

 

So kudos to Pyga for getting into this innovation path because I feel the rear wheel and front wheel hub widths are two of the biggest reasons I'm not a fan of 29ers yet. The wheels are just generally too weak. Hopefully this innovation gets the Pyga noticed and puts it on the international marathon bike map.

 

From Pat's talk on Thursday and subsequent chat about this, the focus was firmly on the chain line (specifically in the context of 11 speed gearing) and this is what spurred the change. This wasn't a reason used to address another issue (wheel strength), it was the issue. Added wheel strength, though, is certainly a welcome positive benefit.

 

Pat intimated on Thursday that the plus five concept will be seen in more Pyga's - "the Stage is just the start" were his words.

 

I'd hazard a guess that we will see plus five trickle through the PYGA lineup and across all wheel sizes.

SimpleDom

Apr 18, 2015, 1:16 PM

Oh man. This may just cause a divorce...

Capricorn

Apr 18, 2015, 1:54 PM

Oh man. This may just cause a divorce...

 

its ok, just get another that's +5. It's apparently an advantage.

awesme

Apr 18, 2015, 1:58 PM

Just get 2 and make the 2nd a pressy to her.

G

 

its ok, just get another that's +5. It's apparently an advantage.

Headshot

Apr 20, 2015, 10:08 AM

Lekker looking bike, but that' s not what I'd call a short stem on there. Then again compared to a normal dirt roadie stem maybe it is. Kudos to Pyga for recognising the need for bikes that can actually be ridden offroad properly, unlike most steep long stemmed marathon bikes which are hopeless in technical terrain. The bike industry in this country has been selling the wrong bikes to people for years thanks to the SA belief that marathon racing is the definition of mountain biking....

patches

Apr 20, 2015, 10:27 AM

that colour scheme is sooo last year... :ph34r:  :whistling: :lol:

 

post-10758-1390328472,6674.jpg

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/135107-extreme-makeover-morewood-edition

Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

Apr 20, 2015, 10:32 AM

Lekker looking bike, but that' s not what I'd call a short stem on there. Then again compared to a normal dirt roadie stem maybe it is. Kudos to Pyga for recognising the need for bikes that can actually be ridden offroad properly, unlike most steep long stemmed marathon bikes which are hopeless in technical terrain. The bike industry in this country has been selling the wrong bikes to people for years thanks to the SA belief that marathon racing is the definition of mountain biking....

don't let Tim hear you say that.... 

GoLefty!!

Apr 20, 2015, 10:35 AM

Lekker looking bike, but that' s not what I'd call a short stem on there. Then again compared to a normal dirt roadie stem maybe it is. Kudos to Pyga for recognising the need for bikes that can actually be ridden offroad properly, unlike most steep long stemmed marathon bikes which are hopeless in technical terrain. The bike industry in this country has been selling the wrong bikes to people for years thanks to the SA belief that marathon racing is the definition of mountain biking....

 

 

Long stem does not mean steep geometry. It could be due to a bike fit choice.

 

E.g..

Lets take a Giant Anthem. Small has a TT of 57.5cm, the medium has a TT of 59.5.

 

I need a top tube including stem measurement of around 66-67 cm.

 

DO I take a Small and fit a 90 or 100 mm stem and have a shorter wheelbase that's a hoot around tight singletrack climbs

 

or

 

do a I take a Medium with a 70-80mm stem but 2cm longer wheelbase? More stable on descents but not going to go uphill as quickly, not goin to be as stiff and its going to be heavier.

 

depending on my preference for where I need the bike to work with me more, will determine which size I opt for rather than a paradigm of short stem + wide bars = mountain biker and Long stem + narrower bars = Dirt roadie.

 

In this case I'd be more inclined (Excuse the pun) to opt for the small for marathon and the medium size on something like a Trance. reason being about how the bike is going to be used most of the time.

Headshot

Apr 20, 2015, 10:56 AM

Long stem does not mean steep geometry. It could be due to a bike fit choice.

 

E.g..

Lets take a Giant Anthem. Small has a TT of 57.5cm, the medium has a TT of 59.5.

 

I need a top tube including stem measurement of around 66-67 cm.

 

DO I take a Small and fit a 90 or 100 mm stem and have a shorter wheelbase that's a hoot around tight singletrack climbs

 

or

 

do a I take a Medium with a 70-80mm stem but 2cm longer wheelbase? More stable on descents but not going to go uphill as quickly, not goin to be as stiff and its going to be heavier.

 

depending on my preference for where I need the bike to work with me more, will determine which size I opt for rather than a paradigm of short stem + wide bars = mountain biker and Long stem + narrower bars = Dirt roadie.

 

In this case I'd be more inclined (Excuse the pun) to opt for the small for marathon and the medium size on something like a Trance. reason being about how the bike is going to be used most of the time.

You ignored a host of other factors there in your obsession with wheel base and stem length  :ph34r:  :D

Dubsymike

Apr 20, 2015, 11:35 AM

JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!

GoLefty!!

Apr 20, 2015, 11:57 AM

You ignored a host of other factors there in your obsession with wheel base and stem length  :ph34r:  :D

 

 

I had to keep it simple for you lawyer types :whistling:

flowCountry

Apr 20, 2015, 12:47 PM

nice to see they're not using the boost standard

Stoffies1

Apr 20, 2015, 1:22 PM

Don't get my wrong I really love my SID... Only the sponsored riders can ride this shock.

Hairy

Apr 20, 2015, 1:56 PM

Don't get my wrong I really love my SID... Only the sponsored riders can ride this shock.

......after the Epic I spotted many a late "middle aged" man on bikes with the RS fitted...... #justsayingthereisawealthymarketouthere ..... but yes, you need cash for that and I could not justify it vs a "std" fork.

 

Would rather get a Lefty if USD fork was a must.

GoLefty!!

Apr 20, 2015, 4:41 PM

Lefty still the benchmark for USD performance (Yes I have ridden a RS-1) but the RS-1 a markedly better than a conventional fork in almost every area. That Bike radar review is a load of bollocks. They were probably feeling the flex in the wheel since non carbon 29er wheels are pretty flexy. Like Lefty, the fork is stiffer so the flex in a wheel is much more apparent. Then they talk about how it affected the handling............what a joke!!

 

In the 650B format I think the RS-1 will be the benchmark for 100mm travel since Lefty is not available in 100mm travel for 650B format. You could probably combobulate one to 650B

Monark

Apr 20, 2015, 5:12 PM

When is the Stage going to go on sale... am keen to see the pricing...

GoLefty!!

Apr 20, 2015, 5:34 PM

where would one be able to purchase the stage from a non Spaz sell out?

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