Kevin Evans accepts doping charge

You applying the wrong formula.

2a+2a=4a where a is a variable

Other applicable formulae would be

2a+2b =2(a+b)

2a x 2b=4ab

Where a is not = to b

a is a variable

b is a variable

And so the 'useful' contributions dry up ..... ah well it will now be relegated to the also rans and I will patiently await the 'imminent' next announcements 

Bwhaaaaaa,

We HUBBERS are strange creatures indeed, we agree on something, so that's no fun so then we look at angles to agree to disagree, knowing we mostly agree.

You applying the wrong formula.

 

2a+2a=4a where a is a variable

Other applicable formulae would be

 

2a+2b =2(a+b)

 

2a x 2b=4ab

 

Where a is not = to b

a is a variable

b is a variable

So, basically, you're saying something doesn't add up?

I am trying to figure this all out, so maybe writing it out helps me.

Some years ago the former big time pro gets done for EPO – finally, the sponsor clique gets partially shattered, the former teammates/ movie producers are aghast and so the process starts.

Recently the upstart from KZN gets pinged for the same – embarrassing defences aside, it seems he wasn’t the brightest of the bunch. The process is in full swing.

Then another finding and this time the excuse is convoluted, almost tugging at the heart strings. Tight circle is still aghast, lines are drawn supporters vs cynics. More to come it seems.

Then the fun starts:

The guy who has always supplied lots of the bikes is unhappy, especially with the ‘journos’. Threats.

The ‘journos’ are up against the sports scientists who stick to the facts and keep asking so many irritating questions. (isn’t that what journos are supposed to do?)

The ‘journos’ are turning against each other, because the free Oakleys, event invites, product launches etc have compromised them and nobody knows who’s friends with who and who said what, all of a sudden the ‘integrity’ of the journos is seen to be in question! Shock and horror, so did that pic of you in a sponsored jersey or those new shoes mean you cant really say too much about that distributors riders.

The current riders then have their own conflicts, so its OK to go after that big bike distributor or ex rider, but hey wait you have just hitched your desperate plea for a sponsor to the controversial supplement supplier. Now put aside the fact that the product supplier and their two brands are the primary sponsor of supplements to a host of pinged athletes and former brand ambassadors, you need the cash and the Epic entry, so you jump on board – ask no questions, tell no lies.

Then there is the biggest mtb race, unquestionable ethics thus far and quick to turn on and disqualify some of the dopers above, but in this age of dwindling sponsors, up pops the guy with the aggressive marketing for his supplements and you too have a new event sponsor.

Just my humble opinion – because it seems everyone has one. The only professionals here are the sports scientists, they are sticking to the facts.

If I were advising a young rider, I would say get yourself an education and a profession or a trade, something honourable, because this mess aint going to get sorted out for some time and so when someone offers you a box of free supplements and an entry to an event – you can say yes OK or no thanks. But when you can only say yes OK, then you are along for the ride and all that comes with it.

 

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And fans of brand/event /product /rider all believe whatever is their favourite cannot be part of the problem because (pick one)

- They're in it for the love

- Their smile is infectious and therefore must be good / decent

- Aren't interested in making money, the love brings the money

- Are never aware of whats going on around them

- Are just innocent victims of someone else's greed

So, basically, you're saying something doesn't add up?

Only when you don't know, want to know, or can't understand what a or b is

Man, this bust has really showed some of the pro's / industry players's true colours(for both sides of the coin I might add). From current pro's, magazines, journos, retailers, event organizers, product agents.

The one good things that's seems to be happening is the very aggressive condemnation by some pros on those being caught. Before not much was said. I like that this is changing.

Its not much, but it's something positive.

Cheap is relative. Most South Aftican Pro cyclists probably couldn't afford your monthly coffee bill. Most white collar professionals aged 30-50 (Vets) probably could.

 

Also the risk, if you get caught using HGH at a race, you wouldn't lose your medical license, pro cyclists would.

 

Surely it's not hard to see that the barrier to entry and risks is lower for Vets to dope. Again not saying that they do, but that's it's just less off a mission for them too if they choose to do so. They also have less incentive to do so, it's only competitive nature that drives them, not a need to maintain their jobs, so it's not all against them

Been saying this a long time on all these threads since the pre-Lance days.

If you had to get most of the faster guys in the field (lets say A bunch and Vets)  and run some tests on them I predict you would be shocked what you would find. I reckon they could melt the test tubes with some of the concoctions they are using.

These guys are cheque book warriors and as such there is no risk to them as you point out. And no real desire to police them as well, because its just recreational sports.

A lot of the stories are anecdotal and there are some pretty lurid ones at that, and some are not so anecdotal and you sit there thinking "Did I really see that?"

The one good things that's seems to be happening is the very aggressive condemnation by some pros on those being caught. Before not much was said. I like that this is changing.

 

Its not much, but it's something positive.

Hmmm, until they themselves get caught 

Maybe its easy to spot the dopers, they dont shout so loud when their mates get bust

Hmmm, until they themselves get caught 

Maybe its easy to spot the dopers, they dont shout so loud when their mates get bust

I'm not so sure, as I've said many times I am most suspicious of those who shout the most ......

So 2+2 is only 4 under certain conditions..

Hahaha I dig this place ????????????

Been saying this a long time on all these threads since the pre-Lance days.

 

If you had to get most of the faster guys in the field (lets say A bunch and Vets) and run some tests on them I predict you would be shocked what you would find. I reckon they could melt the test tubes with some of the concoctions they are using.

 

These guys are cheque book warriors and as such there is no risk to them as you point out. And no real desire to police them as well, because its just recreational sports.

 

A lot of the stories are anecdotal and there are some pretty lurid ones at that, and some are not so anecdotal and you sit there thinking "Did I really see that?"

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

One person's hyperbole is another's understatement.

The word "most" should maybe be used in moderation.     

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

Human nature is pretty general whether we label people Vets or Pros.

Question(s). Who was Kevin Evans' coach? Did he have one, was it the same guy for DG at 360Life?

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

There's a few Vets 'out-liers' indeed that has small ego and inferiority complex that need to feel better about themselves.

I would agree that 7 out of 10 really earn their results through hard and smart work in the saddle.

 

Just my humble opinion – because it seems everyone has one. The only professionals here are the sports scientists, they are sticking to the facts.

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I really like the way Ross Tucker goes about his business. He is a clearly a good scientist but even more importantly he is excellent at portraying his thoughts in a logical way that the average bloke can read it.

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

Agreed - lets not tar and feather everyone. I retract my most and put in a some.

tumbles, I know you said something like no comment on what your boeties says, but is there a BROMANCE we need to know about  

I agree with you that measured performance does predict capabilities. But measured against a set of constants. You need to limit the variables to increase accuracy of the measurement.

 

Also, people mustn't now go and assume that I'm claiming that there is no merit in climb comparisons, but if you want to measure climb comparisons you need to take the variables into account.

 

Eg. If Froome climbed Ventoux in 45mins in 2015 during the Tour and again climbed it in 45mins at a training camp in 2016, you cannot with certainty say that his capabilities were identical in both attempts based purely on ascent times. You have to take other factors into consideration.

What you say is true in a certain sense - you have to use a comparable MAX effort from all participants in the test (and an appropriate test) - so during a race you cannot guarantee the efforts will be max efforts - and you don't know on STRAVA either - but as a general rule - guys that are consistently winning STRAVA kom's are generally capable of winning races (this does not mean they will win races as there are other elements to racing like team strategy, pacing, nutrition, etc etc)

There is some science too that has shown that speed over shorter distances predicts marathon performance with a high degree of accuracy for example, and there is no doubt that this is consistent even across some different sports - so for example 400m times might be able to be compared to cycling performance capability.

I would however not reccomend using mid race strava segments to predict max performance - clearly they are unlikely to be absolute max efforts.

Play nice now boys tomorrow is Friday

Ramping it up for Friday is good....

In terms of marketing value, is a win in a Cape Town race worth more to a sponsor than a kiff oke with a shweet instagram and a awesome brand ambassador. 

I know I have bought certain items of kit and entered races etc because local "pros" (I am not sure they are even pro, just post a lot about cycle and ride a lot) 

To be honest, I could not tell you who was on the podium of Epic this year, only that he was on a Spez. 

I cannot even remember who won the biggest road race last year or the year before, Hoffman or a Bonitas guy? 

My point, in SA are results the be all and end all for sponsors?  

I have attached some instagram accounts I follow that I am sure produce more AVE than some SA Pros. 

https://goo.gl/QheZwD

https://goo.gl/WfNTLw

https://goo.gl/pSfChk

Yes one is an importer but you get the point.

Cheap is relative. Most South Aftican Pro cyclists probably couldn't afford your monthly coffee bill. Most white collar professionals aged 30-50 (Vets) probably could.

 

Also the risk, if you get caught using HGH at a race, you wouldn't lose your medical license, pro cyclists would.

 

Surely it's not hard to see that the barrier to entry and risks is lower for Vets to dope. Again not saying that they do, but that's it's just less off a mission for them too if they choose to do so. They also have less incentive to do so, it's only competitive nature that drives them, not a need to maintain their jobs, so it's not all against them

From memory - EPO (from the pharmacy) is about 1800 a month for therapeutic doses - and that is manageable for most well to do vets - HGH on the other hand is much more expensive - MUCH.

And you are absolutely correct that the barriers to doping for Vets that are already sucessful in business are low - financially fairly low (monthly or long term if you get caught), and unless you are standing on the podium for a major race, then really unlikely to be tested at all.

Still - the issues around applying for a KE TUE for ozone therapy are at best dodgy - Ozone is not even on the restricted list - http://list.wada-ama.org/by-substance/#O-group - so why even apply for a TUE - clearly you don't need a TUE for what is not restricted - nor will they even issue one.

I'm not so sure, as I've said many times I am most suspicious of those who shout the most ......

I would be interested to know what this "meeting" was about and exactly who was involved in this potential conspiracy of silence.... - mentioned in one of the clippings earlier....

If I had to translate between the lines it sounded like "Why are you blabbing about this? you agreed to be silent on the subject in the meeting, so we don't impact our sponsor/supporter deals" to me...

There's a few Vets 'out-liers' indeed that has small ego and inferiority complex that need to feel better about themselves.

I would agree that 7 out of 10 really earn their results through hard and smart work in the saddle.

I agree, I used to ride VA and could stay with the front guys without doping. I was a pretty average cyclist. Now and then you get someone who can destroy the field, either very talented or on something.

If I look at how hard the VA's train and how often they race. It is possible for most of them to ride at this level without dope.