Kevin Evans accepts doping charge

You are arguing with my statement and not the point I was trying to make.

 

Read edited post.... "It has long been agreed that 2 + 2 = 4" is not logically wrong if you see it for the point I'm trying to make.

OK mate, my apologies, I am sorry I have riled you up, it was not intended.

You are arguing with my statement and not the point I was trying to make.

 

Read edited post.... "It has long been agreed that 2 + 2 = 4" is not logically wrong if you see it for the point I'm trying to make.

Qué? i think Intern surrendered because he's as confused as i am

OK mate, my apologies, I am sorry I have riled you up, it was not intended.

I stand by my statement that "individual isolated times up hills is not an accurate way to determine performance capabilities between athletes because of all the variables that can influence the end result", and I'm not saying this because it the general consensus

Maybe we should start a new thread about it if we want to interrogate that method further

I think with this many replies  and this subject matter it's time to turn the clock back and get ready for a for a good, honest, old fashioned, friday hub special... come on, those pitch forks and lanterns have been hiding away for far too long.

http://coolerinsights.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/angry-mob.jpeg

No, I'm not asking you to stop, we should interrogate people's arguments it's what's makes for constructive debate, I truly am not worked up Well I wouldn't be if we interrogated my statement that "people's times up hills is a bad measurement of comparable performance" but instead we focused on me saying "it's accepted.....".

 

I stand by my statement that "individual isolated times up hills is not an accurate way to determine performance capabilities between athletes because of all the variables that can influence the end result", and I'm not saying this because it the general consensus

 

Maybe we should start a new thread about it if we want to interrogate that method further

What I will try to stop is being a dick! It is that which I am sorry 'bout    .

I think with this many replies  and this subject matter it's time to turn the clock back and get ready for a for a good, honest, old fashioned, friday hub special... come on, those pitch forks and lanterns have been hiding away for far too long.

 

http://coolerinsights.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/angry-mob.jpeg

Statement released on a monday, then twitter goes down on Tuesday... hmmm seems like the powers that be did not want this thread getting to Friday. 

You and I will both agree that 2 + 2 = 4, 2+2 does not equal 4 because we agree it does, 2+ 2 = 4 because it just does, it's the truth and therefore we agree on it.

I just had an epiphany: 2 x 2 also equals 4

I just had an epiphany: 2 x 2 also equals 4

2² is also 4.

Wtf

This thread is a hilarious roller-coaster

????

Exactly this.

 

Who are Vets... 30 to 50 year olds who mostly can afford R100k bikes, most are competitive hence them racing.

 

Risk is also lower, as getting caught won't affect salary earning ability.

 

I would love it if they tested more Vets!

Anyone who can afford a 6 figure bike can fund an epo habit pretty easily if they can get a script - in fact their medical aid might well pay for it too.

2² is also 4.

that is 2x2....

The answer however, is 42

EPO is cheap too... less than my monthly coffee bill... #justsaying.... actually its about the same - but I choose coffee... tastes better.

Anyone who can afford a 6 figure bike can fund an epo habit pretty easily if they can get a script - in fact their medical aid might well pay for it too.

Ok jeez, forget that I said Strava...

 

It has long been agreed by scientist that using times up climbs is not a relevant measurement of comparative capability.

If only the hub had some Drs

Old Ross Tucker is not letting up on poor Tumbleweed's bro!

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 25m25 minutes ago

@katjanechild @KevinMcCallum the discrepancy in the dates was obvious within minutes.You often seek 3rd opinion on your stories. Not onerous

 

Although tbh it seems to be a case of shooting the messenger because he doesn't like the explanations!

Sorry - I differ on this - scientist do agree that measured performance does predict performance capability

Also, people mustn't now go and assume that I'm claiming that there is no merit in climb comparisons, but if you want to measure climb comparisons you need to take the variables into account.

Eg. If Froome climbed Ventoux in 45mins in 2015 during the Tour and again climbed it in 45mins at a training camp in 2016, you cannot with certainty say that his capabilities were identical in both attempts based purely on ascent times. You have to take other factors into consideration.

EPO is cheap too... less than my monthly coffee bill... #justsaying.... actually its about the same - but I choose coffee... tastes better.

 

Anyone who can afford a 6 figure bike can fund an epo habit pretty easily if they can get a script - in fact their medical aid might well pay for it too.

Cheap is relative. Most South Aftican Pro cyclists probably couldn't afford your monthly coffee bill. Most white collar professionals aged 30-50 (Vets) probably could.

Also the risk, if you get caught using HGH at a race, you wouldn't lose your medical license, pro cyclists would.

Surely it's not hard to see that the barrier to entry and risks is lower for Vets to dope. Again not saying that they do, but that's it's just less off a mission for them too if they choose to do so. They also have less incentive to do so, it's only competitive nature that drives them, not a need to maintain their jobs, so it's not all against them

Yes. More practical & realistic to allow all competitors to use whatever they like. Some will kill themselves doing it - like Simpson did. But I suspect genetics & appropriate training will still prevail over any chemical advantage - we don't know, because we're still bickering about moral issues

It is his 'little world view' and those of thousands of good citizens like him, that make for a healthy society, friend.

Food for thought from Dr Martin Luther King.

I agree with you that measured performance does predict capabilities. But measured against a set of constants. You need to limit the variables to increase accuracy of the measurement.

 

Also, people mustn't now go and assume that I'm claiming that there is no merit in climb comparisons, but if you want to measure climb comparisons you need to take the variables into account.

 

Eg. If Froome climbed Ventoux in 45mins in 2015 during the Tour and again climbed it in 45mins at a training camp in 2016, you cannot with certainty say that his capabilities were identical in both attempts based purely on ascent times. You have to take other factors into consideration.

Man, this bust has really showed some of the pro's / industry players's true colours(for both sides of the coin I might add). From current pro's, magazines, journos, retailers, event organizers, product agents. 

So 2+2 is only 4 under certain conditions..

We HUBBERS are strange creatures indeed, we agree on something, so that's no fun so then we look at angles to agree to disagree, knowing we mostly agree.

Tumbles brother newds to do some homework on ozone therapy and ts acceptance in conventional medicine... I thought KE had just made a typo and he was referring to the blood transfusions - I should pay closer attention sometimes - my BS alarm should go off faster.

50cc,,,,,I don't know how you can actually concentrate with your BS alarm going off as much as it does, I think you enjoy the few seconds a day that you have when that alarm is being fixed. Play nice now boys tomorrow is Friday

I am trying to figure this all out, so maybe writing it out helps me.

Some years ago the former big time pro gets done for EPO – finally, the sponsor clique gets partially shattered, the former teammates/ movie producers are aghast and so the process starts.

Recently the upstart from KZN gets pinged for the same – embarrassing defences aside, it seems he wasn’t the brightest of the bunch. The process is in full swing.

Then another finding and this time the excuse is convoluted, almost tugging at the heart strings. Tight circle is still aghast, lines are drawn supporters vs cynics. More to come it seems.

Then the fun starts:

The guy who has always supplied lots of the bikes is unhappy, especially with the ‘journos’. Threats.

The ‘journos’ are up against the sports scientists who stick to the facts and keep asking so many irritating questions. (isn’t that what journos are supposed to do?)

The ‘journos’ are turning against each other, because the free Oakleys, event invites, product launches etc have compromised them and nobody knows who’s friends with who and who said what, all of a sudden the ‘integrity’ of the journos is seen to be in question! Shock and horror, so did that pic of you in a sponsored jersey or those new shoes mean you cant really say too much about that distributors riders.

The current riders then have their own conflicts, so its OK to go after that big bike distributor or ex rider, but hey wait you have just hitched your desperate plea for a sponsor to the controversial supplement supplier. Now put aside the fact that the product supplier and their two brands are the primary sponsor of supplements to a host of pinged athletes and former brand ambassadors, you need the cash and the Epic entry, so you jump on board – ask no questions, tell no lies.

Then there is the biggest mtb race, unquestionable ethics thus far and quick to turn on and disqualify some of the dopers above, but in this age of dwindling sponsors, up pops the guy with the aggressive marketing for his supplements and you too have a new event sponsor.

Just my humble opinion – because it seems everyone has one. The only professionals here are the sports scientists, they are sticking to the facts.

If I were advising a young rider, I would say get yourself an education and a profession or a trade, something honourable, because this mess aint going to get sorted out for some time and so when someone offers you a box of free supplements and an entry to an event – you can say yes OK or no thanks. But when you can only say yes OK, then you are along for the ride and all that comes with it.

​