Anti-Doping Rule Violation: Tyronne White

Interesting point V12man.

 

So here's a question I've had running through my head: in this instance would it not have been best if the medic/race doctor had the authority to pull a racer out of the race regardless of the level of he is racing at? Or is that going tad overboard with the race doctor's responsibilities?

 

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I suspect they also have some more control during the CE but it will be a difficult call - doctors are not policemen and you might for instance let a patient go back to their accomodation overnight for instance with an instruction to return in the am for further assessment... what happens if they don't come back and carry on? I am pretty sure it can be done but there would have to be clear clinical criteria set and rules in place - not going to be easy at all.

I agree that at the end of the day it is the athlete's responsibility but......................

 

When you are dr at a sanctioned event and you treat the athletes you always have the athlete's best interest at heart (you took an oath anyway). Sometimes (I would think most times in serious conditions) these treatments probably contain some sort of a banned substance.

 

My point is that surely the dr at these race must be clued up on what is banned or not and inform the athlete of the best treatment and that it contains a banned substance. Then it is the athletes responsibility if he wants it or not (and sign for it).

 

This just makes sense to me

Like I said in a previous comment - the anti doping rules are sports rules... not medical rules - the doc is not a sports referee and should not be forced into being one because then they might act contrary to the patients best medical interests by for eg not prescribing the best drugs for the condition but rather one that is within the rules- what would happen if the patient died as a result of using the less effective medication that is within the rules? Who takes the fall for that?

See - not so easy to simply put the onus on the medic - Far better for the medic to be totally independent and only concern themselves with the patients well being.

Like I said in a previous comment - the anti doping rules are sports rules... not medical rules - the doc is not a sports referee and should not be forced into being one because then they might act contrary to the patients best medical interests by for eg not prescribing the best drugs for the condition but rather one that is within the rules- what would happen if the patient died as a result of using the less effective medication that is within the rules? Who takes the fall for that?

 

See - not so easy to simply put the onus on the medic - Far better for the medic to be totally independent and only concern themselves with the patients well being.

But like you have said before, the doctor is not a policeman, and cannot force the patient to take meds.

Say you prescribe me medication, I then go do the SAIDS check and see its on the prohibited list, so I don't take it because I don't want to be called a doper on the Hub, but its 2 hours to do in a 8 day race, so I decide to carry on, and die.... well whoops.

If I was a given a second option, that wouldn't result in me being flamed on the hub, I would have taken it and maybe not died.

Its not about putting the onus on the medic, merely a suggestion that in competition alternatives could be suggested.

Else, put the onus on the athlete like it is now, and let them sit there with their phone checking each prescribed medication until one that is not prohibited gets suggested.... same result.

This is all relevant IF the race Dr gave the rider in question the banned drugs...

Tired of sad stories and lame excuses. If its on the list and your sample is positive collect your punishment. 

Oh absolutely.

However, I cannot morally put a weed smoker in the same "cheaters" box as a guy who gets caught for EPO.

Both will serve the same sanction, but I promise you the guy didn't rook boom to get a competitive advantage over the guy he beat

A lot of peeps on this thread has never been to the race doc? Or even treated by ems at an event.

If you think that the doctor at a race event has been placed there by CSA, then you would be wrong.

As V12 says, doctor treats patients, who happen to be cycling. Unless you are a cycling team doctor, I see no need for the doc to have to vet the medication being administered.

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Says he had food poisoning and was severely dehydrated but managed to finish the stage?

 

I had food poisoning once and didn't have the energy to walk to the Hospital desk.I also dehydrated once in a race and was taken to hospital by ambulance.How on earth did he then finish the stage.

I was dehydrated to the point of passing out, falling over and seeing things in the dunes, on the DD, dragged myself to the finish 60km later.

Its called rule5

A lot of peeps on this thread has never been to the race doc? Or even treated by ems at an event.

 

If you think that the doctor at a race event has been placed there by CSA, then you would be wrong.

 

As V12 says, doctor treats patients, who happen to be cycling. Unless you are a cycling team doctor, I see no need for the doc to have to vet the medication being administered.

 

 

 

 

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He doesn't NEED too.

The discussion is, if they did, would it help?

Always going to be a difficult call to make - on some races like the Cape Epic this is effectively in place - they just hospitalise the patient overnight... it would be a miracle to get yourself out on time for the start the next day unless you released yourself AMA.

 

I suspect they also have some more control during the CE but it will be a difficult call - doctors are not policemen and you might for instance let a patient go back to their accomodation overnight for instance with an instruction to return in the am for further assessment... what happens if they don't come back and carry on? I am pretty sure it can be done but there would have to be clear clinical criteria set and rules in place - not going to be easy at all.

Thanks Doc. Really interesting and as a side note gives me an indication what could have happened with Tyrone and the decision-making process that occured.

I really think that getting those rules re in competition medical care need to be looked at properly and a holistic solution found to help lessen and/or prevent such incidences from occuring and perhaps a modified version of the CE is doing along with Patchelious' colour code medicines box idea could help. Ultimately I fully agree that any race doctors primary concern should be the health of the athlete who is competing but as you've pointed out the athlete also needs to come to the party and properly follow the medical advice given to him/her.

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Says he had food poisoning and was severely dehydrated but managed to finish the stage?

 

I had food poisoning once and didn't have the energy to walk to the Hospital desk.I also dehydrated once in a race and was taken to hospital by ambulance.How on earth did he then finish the stage.

Happened to me Argus 2008, bad fish the night before, leaking both ends and unable to hold anything down I finished it. 

He doesn't NEED too.

 

The discussion is, if they did, would it help?

Oh absolutely.

 

However, I cannot morally put a weed smoker in the same "cheaters" box as a guy who gets caught for EPO.

 

Both will serve the same sanction, but I promise you the guy didn't rook boom to get a competitive advantage over the guy he beat

Had to check, thought it was legal

Oh absolutely.

 

However, I cannot morally put a weed smoker in the same "cheaters" box as a guy who gets caught for EPO.

 

Both will serve the same sanction, but I promise you the guy didn't rook boom to get a competitive advantage over the guy he beat

After all, as Robin Williams later joked, "the only way it's a performance-enhancing drug is if there's a big f---ing Hershey bar at the end of the run," right?

Perhaps races should pay to have pharmacists do this....??

Now thats not a bad suggestion 

I was dehydrated to the point of passing out, falling over and seeing things in the dunes, on the DD, dragged myself to the finish 60km later.

 

Its called rule5

but did you get onto the podium?

its one thing finishing after being dehydrated. Its another actually beating everyone else after being so severely dehydrated that you need two different steroids to get you going again.

Its also quite interesting that a side effect of steroid use is dehydration...

but did you get onto the podium?

 

its one thing finishing after being dehydrated. Its another actually beating everyone else after being so severely dehydrated that you need two different steroids to get you going again.

 

Its also quite interesting that a side effect of steroid use is dehydration...

My comment wasn't about Tyronne or in defence of his statement, it was in response to somebody who said that they couldn't finish a stage because they were dehydrated.

My comment wasn't about Tyronne or in defence of his statement, it was in response to somebody who said that they couldn't finish a stage because they were dehydrated.

sure - i'm just pointing out the obvious here.

if you're so dehydrated you need a race doc, how the hell do you get onto the podium?

sure - i'm just pointing out the obvious here.

 

if you're so dehydrated you need a race doc, how the hell do you get onto the podium?

By taking Glucocorticoid and Dexamethasone... duh

This I think is the main point. A doctor should always have the person's best health issues at heart, and should record it as such. He should also inform the client, especially in a race circumstance whether it is on the banned list or not.

 

There is a grey area where we forget that pro athletes are humans who also do have valid medical conditions caused by things outside their control. If it was me in a terrible state, I would rather be treated for dehydration than suffer. But I am not a pro athlete who pulls himself off his deathbed to race the next day, while doped, in an attempt to deprive someone else of winnings/earnings.

 

And that to me is where the athlete's responsibility fails. But I also do not pretend to know the pressure by sponsirs/teams/etc to continue.

 

(I am not talking about true dopers - only athletes caught on valid medical situations)

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sure - i'm just pointing out the obvious here.

 

if you're so dehydrated you need a race doc, how the hell do you get onto the podium?

ps: Has he answered your and Lemmers question on Facebook yet?

True to this! I had food poisoning once from a BP express pie (back in my student days). Never felt so k@k in my life (think at 1 stage I prayed to die...)

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I was dehydrated to the point of passing out, falling over and seeing things in the dunes, on the DD, dragged myself to the finish 60km later.

 

Its called rule5

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Yes it is:

 

https://www.drugfreesport.org.za/online-medication-check/

Checking is easy

Obtaining a TUE if it's warranted is not so easy.

Oooh lots of people calling for the Doctors head....

https://www.facebook.com/tywhite6/posts/10154026305021561

Go read the comments.

"That sounds very suspect Ty.. How can they have health officials at an elite event giving out medication that contains something that would be banned. This whole case should get thrown out and the discipline come down on those knowingly administering the wrong stuff. Praying that this is resolved. 

All the best and trust in the Lords sovereign plan."

​This one confuses me a bit, is it the Doctor's or Lords plan's fault?

"If his version is true then surely this race Dr must be barred from ever practising at a sport event again?"

Checking is easy

 

Obtaining a TUE if it's warranted is not so easy.

No TUE no ride, its like drinking and driving!