Kevin Evans accepts doping charge

In short, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. You don't need a special commission of inquiry to determine whether or not it is in fact a duck. A duck sending you lawyers letters telling you its not a duck doesn't change the fact that its a duck

Did you have any proof at that stage when you made the accusations?

Did you have any proof at that stage when you made the accusations?

Did you have any proof at that stage when you made the accusations?

technically, nothing that can be used in court. lots of off the record stuff.

why does everyone know that group as "the chemical brothers"? they've had that name since long before my saga with them

technically, nothing that can be used in court. lots of off the record stuff.

 

why does everyone know that group as "the chemical brothers"? they've had that name since long before my saga with them

If the statements you made at the time were unlawful, and you couldn't defend them in court, it is fair to describe the lawyer's letter as bullying?  

But even the " off the record stuff " could just be pure rumours....jealousy...speculation spread as fact....without any actual and factual proof it's all speculative...a birdie recently informed me of a fella (someone very verbal against these dopers) who happens to be on the juice and it's speculated by a few that this fella is on the juice....but there is no real hard facts surrounding those suspicions....

If the statements you made at the time were unlawful, and you couldn't defend them in court, it is fair to describe the lawyer's letter as bullying?

If you are heading in the direction which my mind is heading off in....this could be a miraculous day...us agreeing on something..

If the statements you made at the time were unlawful, and you couldn't defend them in court, it is fair to describe the lawyer's letter as bullying?  

I dont think I ever described anyone or anything as bullying. 

And just because I couldn't defend them in court, doesn't mean I didn't know what I was talking about, or that I was wrong.

If i could defend them in court I would have ignored the letter and not retracted. I did retract, knowing full well that the day would soon come when it would all be out in the open anyways, and the lawyers letters would just be another mark against their name.

Even if i did have court admissible evidence, its unlikely i would spend my time or money fighting SAIDS battles for them.

But I love how most of the outrage is against Jeroen, SAIDS, myself, jules, etc, instead of the lying cheating stealing cyclist who for years has bullied everyone to suit his own agenda.

Everytime its a saffer, everyone goes soft, because "he's such a nice guys", and "he only did it because he had to"

But even the " off the record stuff " could just be pure rumours....jealousy...speculation spread as fact....without any actual and factual proof it's all speculative...a birdie recently informed me of a fella (someone very verbal against these dopers) who happens to be on the juice and it's speculated by a few that this fella is on the juice....but there is no real hard facts surrounding those suspicions....

nah its not just jealous speculation. These guys are so blatant about it (like keeping it in the fridge next to their beer).

 

But I love how most of the outrage is against Jeroen, SAIDS, myself, jules, etc, instead of the lying cheating stealing cyclist who for years has bullied everyone to suit his own agenda.

 

 

THIS!

I might not agree with the whole twitter war thing (interesting as it is), but how quickly people forget that the root of all problems & the real bad guys, the okes that are bad for the sport are the DOPERS, not the people calling them out. Some perspective is sorely needed.

technically, nothing that can be used in court. lots of off the record stuff.

 

why does everyone know that group as "the chemical brothers"? they've had that name since long before my saga with them

It's just a dangerous precedent if we can go around saying so and so quacks like a ..... You too would want the law and the burden of proof to protect you if someone calls you a (enter disgusting criminal activity here) on social media and that is what happened at the time.

But I don't want to detract any more from the true topic which is doping.

It's just a dangerous precedent if we can go around saying so and so quacks like a ..... You too would want the law and the burden of proof to protect you if someone calls you a (enter disgusting criminal activity here) on social media and that is what happened at the time.

 

But I don't want to detract any more from the true topic which is doping.

FWIW, jules and i never called anyone a doper.

I said its very suspicious that DG was busted and then suddenly KE results went to pot. Based on that there was assumed that i was inferring he was doping

I dont think I ever described anyone or anything as bullying. 

 

And just because I couldn't defend them in court, doesn't mean I didn't know what I was talking about, or that I was wrong.

 

If i could defend them in court I would have ignored the letter and not retracted. I did retract, knowing full well that the day would soon come when it would all be out in the open anyways, and the lawyers letters would just be another mark against their name.

 

Even if i did have court admissible evidence, its unlikely i would spend my time or money fighting SAIDS battles for them.

 

But I love how most of the outrage is against Jeroen, SAIDS, myself, jules, etc, instead of the lying cheating stealing cyclist who for years has bullied everyone to suit his own agenda.

 

Everytime its a saffer, everyone goes soft, because "he's such a nice guys", and "he only did it because he had to"

The fact still remains: you made an unlawful statement, which you couldn't back up. Evans' bust now doesn't change that.

You say you didn't have any court admissible evidence? That would call into question the reliability of the evidence you did have. Have you presented any of that evidence since now that it is in the open? 

How would your money and time defending a court action have any bearing on SAIDS' bust of Evans?

I think most of the outrage is being directed at Evans.        

I dont think I ever described anyone or anything as bullying. 

 

And just because I couldn't defend them in court, doesn't mean I didn't know what I was talking about, or that I was wrong.

 

If i could defend them in court I would have ignored the letter and not retracted. I did retract, knowing full well that the day would soon come when it would all be out in the open anyways, and the lawyers letters would just be another mark against their name.

 

Even if i did have court admissible evidence, its unlikely i would spend my time or money fighting SAIDS battles for them.

 

But I love how most of the outrage is against Jeroen, SAIDS, myself, jules, etc, instead of the lying cheating stealing cyclist who for years has bullied everyone to suit his own agenda.

 

Everytime its a saffer, everyone goes soft, because "he's such a nice guys", and "he only did it because he had to"

I agree largely on all of this, but in my view you also did yourself no favours with the manner in which you tackled Kevins wife on Twitter... she may be naive, she most definitely should not have said anything, but she is also at the end of the day just a wife defending her husband, best friend and father of her kids and their lives of the last decade.

Sometimes you do just have to be the bigger person

FWIW, jules and i never called anyone a doper.

 

I said its very suspicious that DG was busted and then suddenly KE results went to pot. Based on that there was assumed that i was inferring he was doping

Was the comment made on a doping thread? If so, a reasoned person would consider the angle you took as inferring him as being a doper.

If it was on a thread "How training with a partner boosts performance..." then you may well have gotten away with you inclination being that KE does not train well alone   

nah its not just jealous speculation. These guys are so blatant about it (like keeping it in the fridge next to their beer).

I also heard the rumours about the stuff in the fridge...very much as the many stories about the Jozi ICG group....but without actually seeing anything which would make it conclusive...it makes it nothing more than speculation which could lead to defamation....

Was the comment made on a doping thread? If so, a reasoned person would consider the angle you took as inferring him as being a doper.

 

If it was on a thread "How training with a partner boosts performance..." then you may well have gotten away with you inclination being that KE does not train well alone   

comment was made on twitter. I'd point you to it, but its been deleted

The fact still remains: you made an unlawful statement, which you couldn't back up. Evans' bust now doesn't change that.

 

You say you didn't have any court admissible evidence? That would call into question the reliability of the evidence you did have. Have you presented any of that evidence since now that it is in the open? 

 

How would your money and time defending a court action have any bearing on SAIDS' bust of Evans?

   

I think most of the outrage is being directed at Evans.        

I made no such statement.

I said its amazing that how a SA pro's performance has dropped now that his riding partner has been busted.

1) i never mentioned his name

2) I never called him a doper.

very few people would have suspected anything if KE hadnt gone on the rampage the way he did. Streissand effect kinda?

comment was made on twitter. I'd point you to it, but its been deleted

The comment was refered to in the letter that Jules posted on Twitter....

2. We have been instructed with the contents of a tweet sent by your Twitter account @jules52, on or

about 30 June 2014, as follows:

“@Bicycleasshole @zkrige It’s also instructive to look at his results before he found his blood brother, so to speak.” (“the offending tweet”).

3. The offending tweet was posted in response to the following tweet, posted by Zayin Krige (@zkrige):

“So, theres a SA pro, who, since his partner got busted for EPO in 2012, suddenly hasn’t been performing. Make me wonder...”

The comment was refered to in the letter that Jules posted on Twitter....

ah right - here it is (got it from my emma letter)

ffs - i predicted the "i'm so shocked" outcry and soppy blog posts in my original tweets.

cyclists really are predictable

I made no such statement.

 

I said its amazing that how a SA pro's performance has dropped now that his riding partner has been busted.

 

1) i never mentioned his name - How many Pro's had just been busted? You may as well have named him.

2) I never called him a doper. - You lead anyone reading the tweet to believe you are talking about doping since you used the word 'busted'

 

My very non clued up non lawyer view

 

very few people would have suspected anything if KE hadnt gone on the rampage the way he did. Streissand effect kinda?

My 2cents in bold

My 2cents in bold

the tweet was in 2014 - 2years after DG got busted. hardly "just after"

interestingly enough, the timeframe of this tweet is pretty much exactly the time period KE was busted for.

Which probably why he was so quick on the defense

FWIW, jules and i never called anyone a doper.

 

I said its very suspicious that DG was busted and then suddenly KE results went to pot. Based on that there was assumed that i was inferring he was doping

From where I sit it might be argued that this is fair comment - a defence to defamation. I have not seen the original comments / allegations but does this statement defame KE reputation?  I cannot see that it does but that's only me.

From where I sit it might be argued that this is fair comment - a defence to defamation. I have not seen the original comments / allegations but does this statement defame KE reputation?  I cannot see that it does but that's only me.

read the actual tweet that was sent - it doesnt name ke or dg.

ke made his own name tit there

the tweet was in 2014 - 2years after DG got busted. hardly "just after"

 

interestingly enough, the timeframe of this tweet is pretty much exactly the time period KE was busted for.

 

Which probably why he was so quick on the defense

'Partner busted in 2012'... you still set the time frame.

Anyways, it's all pretty trivial now

Lets not forget the bigger picture here:

David George: Busted for doping, negatively affects the sport.

Brandon Stewart: Busted for doping, negatively affects the sport.

Kevin Evans: Busted for doping, negatively affects the sport.

ZK, hurt their feelings.... we flame HIM?

The logic astounds me.