Burry Stander: Charges to be reinstated

 

Are you a lawyer by any chance TW (oh and Sepia)?

It's all semantics to me. Bottom line is, a great champion died, from the eyewitnesses that made statements to the press the taxi was in the wrong, and Burry's death was in vein.

Sad day, I'll let the legal folk with their semantics argue this one til the cows come home, it just doesn't seem right though.

Journalist, actually. It's got nothing to do with semantics.

Journalist, actually. It's got nothing to do with semantics.

Precisely. got everything to do with what can be proven, and what actually happened. Yes, Burry's death is and was tragic. Yes, it's horrible.

But in this case, was the taxi driver in the wrong? Remains to be proven. If it cannot be proven (witness testimony aside, and no witness will be reliable now, given all the media exposure) then it cannot be proven.

Taxi driver is not automatically in the wrong.

Nobody is defending the taxi driver.

 

The majority of them behave like a-holes, but the fact remains it was initially reported as a hit and run (which it wasn't), and now it is simply assumed that the driver was in the wrong.

 

That's not how it works, for a taxi driver or any other motorist.

 

Further, to assume that the driver is automatically wrong because Burry was a "pro bike handler" is ludicrous.

Reports all clearly stated the driver turned right in front of Burry as he descended a hill. Are we now to assume they are wrong?

In some countries, in the case of cyclist / car accidents, there is automatic presumption of guilt for the driver of the larger vehicle. It's called presumed liability. Personally I think this is a fantastic law.

Being an apologist for driver negligence in this case, with the exposure that it has had, and considering what we have lost as a nation, what Burry's family has lost - seriously?

This driver, unless he can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he was not at fault, should be hung drawn and quartered for all the country to see. We might see a bit more caution exercised in future.

Journalist, actually. It's got nothing to do with semantics.

Either which way, it seems that the words and letter of the law are more important than whats right and whats wrong here. Just sayin.

The legal system doesn't always end up with the right result, many cases have proven this. But technically, if you are arguing to the letter of the law, you are spot on. What is lawful isnt always fair and just though.

Exits thread..... LEFT

This driver, unless he if it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he was not at fault, should be hung drawn and quartered for all the country to see. We might see a bit more caution exercised in future.

fixed.

 

 

Reports all clearly stated the driver turned right in front of Burry as he descended a hill. Are we now to assume they are wrong?

 

In some countries, in the case of cyclist / car accidents, there is automatic presumption of guilt for the driver of the larger vehicle. It's called presumed liability. Personally I think this is a fantastic law.

 

Being an apologist for driver negligence in this case, with the exposure that it has had, and considering what we have lost as a nation, what Burry's family has lost - seriously?

 

This driver, unless he can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he was not at fault, should be hung drawn and quartered for all the country to see. We might see a bit more caution exercised in future.

The onus is not on the driver to prove his innocence, but on the prosecution to prove his guilt.

Once again, this is based on assumption. Do you know what evidence the prosecution has?

 

If he is guilty, I would like nothing more than to see him convicted. It's just not that simple.

What if there simply isn't enough evidence to proceed?

What if..... Heresay?

You probably have better contacts or resources than most of all of us put together, do u have a reason for thinking and saying that or are you just playing the devils advocate?

fixed.

I said 'should be' not 'will be'. Depressing that members of this forum are so comfortable with this guy walking away to drive his taxi down the same roads. When one of you get flattened I expect we'll hear the same crap echoed around these parts.

http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/wiki/dutch-cycle-because-strict-liability-made-everybody-drive-safely-and-play-nice

if matter was provisionally withdrawn the matter can be placed on the roll again.the mere fact that the matter was prov withdrawn is no indication that someone is not guilty.this normally affords the state more time to do a proper investigation rather than rush the case and not having all the evidence to lead during the trial which might end up in the aquital of a guilty man.the sad part is that someone died and that the wheels of justice(including the investigation ) is taking so long.

Not sure if this link has been shared, and it does not tell us more than we know, but:

http://www.news24.co...ropped-20130702

I said 'should be' not 'will be'. Depressing that members of this forum are so comfortable with this guy walking away to drive his taxi down the same roads. When one of you get flattened I expect we'll hear the same crap echoed around these parts.

 

http://www.cycling-e...y-and-play-nice

And how do we know that HE was at fault? That's the point. Until such time as the evidence is submitted to the court, and the prosecution has had their say, along with the defence, we CANNOT know whether he was at fault or not. Yes, he hit Burry. Was he guilty of murder? Maybe. Manslaughter? Maybe.

Until then, wait for the evidence to present itself. One cannot be convicted on possibilities, and to call for such is really going down the wrong path.

I said 'should be' not 'will be'. Depressing that members of this forum are so comfortable with this guy walking away to drive his taxi down the same roads. When one of you get flattened I expect we'll hear the same crap echoed around these parts.

 

http://www.cycling-e...y-and-play-nice

I don't think anyone is "comfortable with this guy walking away". Some of us are just less comfortable with mob justice.

I don't think anyone is "comfortable with this guy walking away". Some of us just less comfortable mob justice.

100%

 

What if..... Heresay?

 

You probably have better contacts or resources than most of all of us put together, do u have a reason for thinking and saying that or are you just playing the devils advocate?

I think the OP - a work colleague - is better-placed and closer to the story than I am. Not Devil's Advocate at all. Just applying the objective mind I would to this as I would to any story I edit.

Not sure if this link has been shared, and it does not tell us more than we know, but:

 

http://www.news24.co...ropped-20130702

And how do we know that HE was at fault? That's the point. Until such time as the evidence is submitted to the court, and the prosecution has had their say, along with the defence, we CANNOT know whether he was at fault or not. Yes, he hit Burry. Was he guilty of murder? Maybe. Manslaughter? Maybe.

 

Until then, wait for the evidence to present itself. One cannot be convicted on possibilities, and to call for such is really going down the wrong path.

To state my opinion clearly, what I'm saying is that in a just society the onus would be on the driver of the vehicle to prove his innocence. Regardless of where we stand with SA law, which I assume cares zip for cyclist preservation.

In the EU there is something called the 5th Directive, implemented in the Netherlands as strict liability. In car-cyclist accidents, the onus falls upon the driver of the car to prove they were not at fault.

Link above states charges are provisionally dropped anyway. No surprises there.

I don't think anyone is "comfortable with this guy walking away". Some of us are just less comfortable with mob justice.

What you call 'mob justice' is the letter of the law in Europe and especially the netherlands, where coincidentally, cyclists have a much better life expectancy.

And how do we know that HE was at fault? That's the point. Until such time as the evidence is submitted to the court, and the prosecution has had their say, along with the defence, we CANNOT know whether he was at fault or not. Yes, he hit Burry. Was he guilty of murder? Maybe. Manslaughter? Maybe.

 

Until then, wait for the evidence to present itself. One cannot be convicted on possibilities, and to call for such is really going down the wrong path.

We should just do the african way.... Kangaroo court!

What is the bottom line here???

Remembering Burry all of a sudden again, or lynch the taxi driver.

FFS most of you are speculating

It is so sad that we have to rely on our justice system tho to present "evidence" because we know that is not going to happen :thumbdown:

Like evidence was presented in the Golden Arrow case. Apparently that cyclist threw himself under the bus. Chalk another one up for SA justice.

It is so sad that we have to rely on our justice system tho to present "evidence" because we know that is not going to happen :thumbdown:

Oh heck. Don't get me started on that. Would build up so much anger I'd be AWing all day. And ASing all night!

I think the OP - a work colleague - is better-placed and closer to the story than I am. Not Devil's Advocate at all. Just applying the objective mind I would to this as I would to any story I edit.

Ok that I get, but now put aside your work ethics and thinking process, as a mature adult, father of children, animal lover, believer in justice, biased beer drinking cyclist ....etc.....

Do you really think the taxi driver might be innocent and a victim of sentiment?

 

Ok that I get, but now put aside your work ethics and thinking process, as a mature adult, father of children, animal lover, believer in justice, biased beer drinking cyclist ....etc.....

 

Do you really think the taxi driver might be innocent and a victim of sentiment?

It's really not for me to say. I have read and heard many differing accounts of what happened that day.

If sentiment guided me, I would want to draw and quarter the taxi driver after having one nearly kill me some years back. I don't think the driver here is a "victim of sentiment" at all, but I have seen plenty "cut and dried" cases failing because there was simply not enough solid evidence of what happened.

FACT:

Burry was cycling North on the N2 towards Port Shepstone, when a Taxi travelling in the opposite direction failed to stop, crossed over a solid white line and hit Burry head on!

Pretty clear cut if you have a look at the attached photo of the scene!

A major concern to us is what message this sends out to other road user

How many other innocent people will die and have died on our roads without any justice for the victims?

Is this how we as a country pay tribute to one of our Sporting heros? Who did so much for SA, who loved this country so much and who was proud to be a South African? I hope not!

But we will not let the matter be! And we are hoping that every South African will get behind us and our cause and justice for Burry!!!

Duane Stander

Burry's Brother