Tokai and Silvermine to remain closed to the public

I have to agree. Though I'm sure it wasn't intentional TnT's post implies that public attendance is encouraged. Her response may be somewhat cattish. But she has a point.

Have your own meeting. 

I don't get it

They invited Tokai residents, I suspect that many/most of TnTs clients are from the area.

Now they can't come?

I don't get it

 

They invited Tokai residents, I suspect that many/most of TnTs clients are from the area.

 

Now they can't come?

LIke I said before, TnT's original post implies public attendance is encouraged.

He only mentioned the invitation being extended to Tokai residents as a response to initial 'objections' 

Cant we the greater cape town community or as tokai mtb demand answers etc from tmnp?

There must be somthing or someone that can answer our questions or is that for the next meeting

I don't get it

 

They invited Tokai residents, I suspect that many/most of TnTs clients are from the area.

 

Now they can't come?

In general I'm a big supporter and defender of the shop but with this they dropped the ball big time and no amount of changing the narrative makes them come out of this well.

Cant we the greater cape town community or as tokai mtb demand answers etc from tmnp?

There must be somthing or someone that can answer our questions or is that for the next meeting

Well, just a few quick little questions to all who suddenly now want SANParks to have a special meeting to inform them:

Did you go to the Tokai MTB AGM a month ago? Did you go to the SANParks public participation meeting a week ago?

I'll tell you that there were barely 20 people at the last Tokai AGM. The SANParks meeting at Newlands attracted about 20 people and a few Parks employees (Most of those knew their stuff and were well prepared). The biggest Tokai AGM ever, brought about 50 cyclists together at Crysalis a year or so back. Pathetic!

What moved you to suddenly now become involved? Why should the mountain come to you? If you were apathetic then, why do you now care all of a sudden? Self interest?

I went to the meetings, I had my say and asked my questions. It took time and effort. It was inconvenient. I had to read pages of boring documents and sit through hours of meetings (that I hate), but I did it! Why? Because I care, and I would rather DO something than just complain!

I have no sympathy for those who want to be fed like babies whenever they cry! To those who became involved and contributed, you are my brothers, I will share my beer with you to the last drop!

Cant we the greater cape town community or as tokai mtb demand answers etc from tmnp?

There must be somthing or someone that can answer our questions or is that for the next meeting

Eddy, this was a requirement in the first week after the fire. Getting answers was a priority for TokaiMTB and as such, after a lengthy telephone conversation TMNP, it was agreed that a press release would help the users understand the reasons for the closure. Still not satisfied, TokaiMTB went back in for a discussion several weeks later and the reasons included below were explained in greater detail. Points of this discussion was sent out in all our comms channels.

There seems to be those who understand and respect the reasons for the closure, and while unhappy about the length of time, support the need for rehab. They must surely see the opportunity for a revised trail network with many of the limitations now out of the way because of the fires, namely;

1. the dragged out remaining 10 years until the Pine exit was due to be completed - the restraint was that only when all the pines were cleared could the area be studied for trail suitability.

2. Before the fire, compartments where Pines were being felled required the correct procedure from a conservation pov to burn to restore the dormant seed bank. Parks were not getting the permission as the risk surrounded by pine was too great.

Now with the fire, the pines are being pulled this year meaning;

1. we have a greatly reduced timeframe in which to plan new trails in one go.

2. The conservationists have their fire and with that there is a reduced risk that when all the pines were eventually cleared, the trails could have been affected by the delayed burns.

See below the facts around the closures, facts that TnT are saying never made it to public view. It cannot be argued, safety is important along with the critical conservation effort being carried out in this National Park. Jonkershoek is a poor comparison for all the above reasons. 

It is important also not to confuse the closure with a call made by Table Mountain National Park. Another fact is that as curators, they take their mandate from others. Equally important is that while the exit lease is being fulfilled, Table Mountain National Park have a legal obligation to accommodate Cape Pine's request to clear all the pine unhindered by riders and hikers and horse riders, all of whom have never been able to stay clear of extremely hazardous felling operations. For proof, look at the tone Bennet had to take around access in Jonkershoek. Cape Pine threatened a blanket closure if rules could not be adhered to.

Fact is we have our answers, but some do not accept them.

PRESS RELEASE - SILVERMINE AND TOKAI TO REMAIN CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.pdf

Well, just a few quick little questions to all who suddenly now want SANParks to have a special meeting to inform them: Did you go to the Tokai MTB AGM a month ago? Did you go to the SANParks public participation meeting a week ago? I'll tell you that there were barely 20 people at the last Tokai AGM. The SANParks meeting at Newlands attracted about 20 people and a few Parks employees (Most of those knew their stuff and were well prepared). The biggest Tokai AGM ever, brought about 50 cyclists together at Crysalis a year or so back. Pathetic! What moved you to suddenly now become involved? Why should the mountain come to you? If you were apathetic then, why do you now care all of a sudden? Self interest? I went to the meetings, I had my say and asked my questions. It took time and effort. It was inconvenient. I had to read pages of boring documents and sit through hours of meetings (that I hate), but I did it! Why? Because I care, and I would rather DO something than just complain! I have no sympathy for those who want to be fed like babies whenever they cry! To those who became involved and contributed, you are my brothers, I will share my beer with you to the last drop!

For starters i was prepared to attend the meeting however time constraints for me is not as flexible as others. I have signed up with tokai mountain bikers expecting to be notified via email about meetings but no i havent received one.

Understand that while there are many people who are interested in helping and getting answers not everyone can afford the time.

However people who do go and represent mtb'ers I appreciate cause I know the sacrifices made to get there

It is no point in pointing finger at people who dont come like u said meetings are hated.

Maybe a solution would be pre meeting points could be raised maybe organize a petition get a question list etc and represent cape town mountain bikers.

But isnt that what tokai mtb is supposed to be doing?

If it is about funds, I will also gladly contibute to a club fee provided there are benefits involved

Deon thanks for that i will read it tomorrow when i have a chance as i am using my cell right now.

I fully understand the reasons for the closures etc and am clued up regaregarding this

Maybe i should have rephrased my question about demanding answers differently

To

Is there a way in which we can all have a meeting to negotiate certain areas to be opened for riding be it hiiing trails or not

I mean the loggers certainly are not busy on the whole mountain but in certain areas. So maybe an area away from their activity could be opened or not! I know there are lots of safety aspects involved etc but yes my previous question sounded more like what tnt would do.

Maybe by open one side of the mnt there will be ways in which trail builders can contribute in preventing winter erosion

...............It is no point in pointing finger at people who dont come...........

I really wasn't pointing at you Eddy.

I really wasn't pointing at you Eddy.

No i understand that you were not

But remember majority of people who use tokai wont be bothered with meetings etc as already day permit fees are high and they feel this is there contribution. I know alot of people who dont like to pay as they dont see the need as they are tax payers and hikers get to go free. In the same breath they complain about the trails and trying to make people like this understand if they pay things get better etc

I seriously believe a club like structure for the future of tokai might be the answer provided some sort of arrangement can me met with tmnp with regards to the land etc but i know this is wishful thinking

No i understand that you were not

But remember majority of people who use tokai wont be bothered with meetings etc as already day permit fees are high and they feel this is there contribution. I know alot of people who dont like to pay as they dont see the need as they are tax payers and hikers get to go free. In the same breath they complain about the trails and trying to make people like this understand if they pay things get better etc

 

I seriously believe a club like structure for the future of tokai might be the answer provided some sort of arrangement can me met with tmnp with regards to the land etc but i know this is wishful thinking

I must be honest. For the majority of people, and this is not only based on Hub representation where anything goes, TokaiMTB has the support needed to make a difference. I for one believe that as we all want something better.

Equally too, I can relate to what DJR has said. The constant and deliberate bashing of TokaiMTB and reps in general must at some point come to an end. We may not be active on a daily basis offering anything new and newsworthy, but what cannot be spoken about in great detail offers promise worth the wait. Really, it will but it needs the support and patience of all. The closures will really test us as a user group. 

 

 

Equally too, I can relate to what DJR has said. The constant and deliberate bashing of TokaiMTB and reps in general must at some point come to an end. 

The stance by parks is starting to grate, and thus i commiserate with everyone that's frustrated by the status quo.

But your desire quoted above? Not gonna happen: some ppl suffer from some belligerent form of indignation, and just can't stop themselves pointing out the 'failings' of the TokaiMTB committee, and of late by comparison with new 'heroes'. Yet, they were part and parcel of that horrible coup two years ago, again as sideline mudslingers/turdtossers, and where did that get things, really.

I dont have a problem with hard debate and challenging questioning, but too often now its more just personal snipes, blatant turdtossing. Maybe we should erect a statue somewhere that they can aim for,and keep the thread clean and civil for a change.

well. The biggest Tokai AGM ever, brought about 50 cyclists together at Crysalis a year or so back. Pathetic!

But ja, the time now should be spent ensuring that tokai reopens as the mtb,trail,hiking,horsey,nature urban jewel it should be.

I'm not sure how we do that, but user groups need to work together.

No i understand that you were not

But remember majority of people who use tokai wont be bothered with meetings etc as already day permit fees are high and they feel this is there contribution. I know alot of people who dont like to pay as they dont see the need as they are tax payers and hikers get to go free. In the same breath they complain about the trails and trying to make people like this understand if they pay things get better etc

 

I seriously believe a club like structure for the future of tokai might be the answer provided some sort of arrangement can me met with tmnp with regards to the land etc but i know this is wishful thinking

There would be so many potential benefits of that if it could be arranged. 

 

well. The biggest Tokai AGM ever, brought about 50 cyclists together at Crysalis a year or so back. Pathetic!

 

But ja, the time now should be spent ensuring that tokai reopens as the mtb,trail,hiking,horsey,nature urban jewel it should be.

I'm not sure how we do that, but user groups need to work together.

That's what we are doing, shebeen. We're almost done with the project charter, and are setting a time to hand it over to parks. Once that's done we'll be continuing to ask for earlier access so that we can get back in and revitalise and bud new trail. Vince is mapping out new dh trail at the moment and working on a few more things on the peninsula together with Reto and a couple more people, and Jason is working on the green belts.

There will be a newsletter coming out this week, detailing where we are, where we were and where we want to be. But for now, all it is is exactly the same as it was a month ago. Cape pine are logging extensively, there's only one access road to the park which means that they can't delineate one side of the mountain for mtb use - it'd just be too dangerous. In addition we haven't exactly been making the best name for ourselves with riding where we're not supposed to be riding, so the blanket closure was expected - we just weren't expecting it to be that long.

We are aiming to get in there sooner, and if we can start work on the trails mid winter to end winter and have uninterrupted building then we should have something mega by the time the park reopens in (now) 16 months time.

Anyway. We will let you know of any developments. For now, they are slow. But we are working on things even though it can't be seen. Rob, on the other hand, is in a sector of the park that was un touched by the fire. Plus we have all been campaigning for YEARS to get the Cecilia section open end for cyclists. It wasn't just a snap decision by parks. The time was just right, and they opened it.

Yes, a club structure would be great, but then again we need to get certain things in place for that and then it'd be another fee and another number board and another set of rules. But maybe that's the best way to go to get Joe Bloggs invved in the trail building and repair without actually lifting a finger. That option is still there, though. But again - I'd rather suggest waiting to see what happens with the project charter, and whether we'll be allowed in sooner than the 18 month timeline before requesting sponsorships.

Anyway. More to come later this week

We are aiming to get in there sooner, and if we can start work on the trails mid winter to end winter and have uninterrupted building then we should have something mega by the time the park reopens in (now) 16 months time.

If we can get this right, I'll be stoked.  I'll be there as often as possible shoveling dirt around to make it awesome.

Trail builders have to test what they build, no? 

If we can get this right, I'll be stoked.  I'll be there as often as possible shoveling dirt around to make it awesome.

 

Trail builders have to test what they build, no? 

We would need a lot of help because if the proposal goes through the amount of work that would be needed is massive.

Unfortunately my evil plans for a secret six month test period for builders only has been knocked back so far...

Table Mountain National Park Tokai and Silvermine closure presentation confirmed to take place in two weeks. Date and venue to be confirmed so keep a look out on Facebook, Twitter and theHubsa.

As with the ZAPO talk last night, it is presentation on the closure and questions will be answered at the end.

Did any Zwaanswyk and /or Tokai residents go to the meeting?

From the Tokai Trailbuilders FB page

I attended the SANParks meeting last night as a resident of Zwaanswyk. No free booze, but there was a presentation on the current situation in the former Tokai plantation. The focus is currently twofold, it seems. Firstly to get all the pine and gums out as soon as possible - they reckon it will take 6 months - and secondly to stabilize and protect the slopes from what is likely to be some nasty erosion. The intense heat from the burning aliens has caused damage to the depth of about a meter. I asked a specific question about what the plans were for mountainbiking and the answer was positive. They see it currently as having a blank canvas and the opportunity to put in a "world class mountainbiking facility" and want to engage the MTB forum and include good trail building ideas. Meetings are scheduled and some of you may be involved with this. He mentioned that they weren't keen to invest in infrastructure in the previous pine plantations as this would inevitably be lost when logging occurred. Time frames given where that Silvermine would likely open in October and Tokai in 18 months or so. I think the message is that we need to engage with them, put forward our ideas and proposals to get what we want.

MMM only 4 months to go..until i can get off that windy Devils peak,now just to find a path up to Silvermine from Tokai and avoid the tar road.

Did any Zwaanswyk and /or Tokai residents go to the meeting?

 

 

From the Tokai Trailbuilders FB page

 

I attended the SANParks meeting last night as a resident of Zwaanswyk. No free booze, but there was a presentation on the current situation in the former Tokai plantation. The focus is currently twofold, it seems. Firstly to get all the pine and gums out as soon as possible - they reckon it will take 6 months - and secondly to stabilize and protect the slopes from what is likely to be some nasty erosion. The intense heat from the burning aliens has caused damage to the depth of about a meter. I asked a specific question about what the plans were for mountainbiking and the answer was positive. They see it currently as having a blank canvas and the opportunity to put in a "world class mountainbiking facility" and want to engage the MTB forum and include good trail building ideas. Meetings are scheduled and some of you may be involved with this. He mentioned that they weren't keen to invest in infrastructure in the previous pine plantations as this would inevitably be lost when logging occurred. Time frames given where that Silvermine would likely open in October and Tokai in 18 months or so. I think the message is that we need to engage with them, put forward our ideas and proposals to get what we want.

Great to hear, and thanks for the feedback.

Geez, hope there is a mountain left standing when the rain clears?

HECTIC downpour in Tokai!

Only light-ish rain on this side of the mountain, but consistent.