Adverse analytical finding in recent mountain bike stage race

Problem is with these "global" contracts that we have to accept and have no choice to negotiate like insurance, banking, telco's etc. when it comes to disputes, we the small people don't have the means for a protracted legal dispute against their full-time lawyers. So in most cases we have to walk away being the ones with the proverbial pineapple.......

MTBAAISAAIKLIST - Repeat after me.

 

"THIS IS GHEY, I WONT PAY!!!!!"

 

(Ghey is the only word i can think of that rhymes with pay)

There's absolutely no way I CAN pay.

Ghey...

There's absolutely no way I CAN pay.

Ghey...

To be very honest, if I were you, I would now retire this from The Hub and go and fight this battle in silence.

See, the problem with the epic is all riders start together and all stand the same chance at the start of the race, to win it. It doesn't matter if you are there to social or to race, if you are a pro or a fun rider, at the start everyone has the same chance. Now, what if all 300 guys in front of him suddenly had mechanical and suddenly he's winning, its not impossible, just improbable. They wont tell him, you are a fun rider, you cannot win and if they do, I can bet you he will fight for his win. Another thing is I don't buy into this fun rider thing, that's only a way of trying to get yourself out from underneath the rules. As soon as you start upgrading a bike, because it "performs" better, then you are getting competitive, as soon as you worry about finishing or where you place, you are competitive. Like I said, its not nice being the one that got caught and in your mind you think its a waste of time, but you have an equal chance of winning, so you have an equal chance of cheating. Saying its a waste to test them is like saying its a waste to disqualify the guy that came 300th, but he took several shortcuts on the route to be able to get there.

Come on Swiss. Surely we can get past the philosophy of cheating after Barry has taken the time to admit guilt and give us the background to what has happened. Hell he even left all of his real contact info on the letters he posted to this here thread. How many people here would be genuine enough to do that alone???? Can we then accept his admission as genuine too??

 

I also don't buy the sh1te some of you are attempting to sell about having to fork out 26K because some small print instructed you to do this, on a form you didn't even glance at properly, that professional cyclists have legal representation to guide them through the consequences of before they sign, ALL because you have traces of a PED for a totally different sport, that you last took roughly half a year ago, when your life focus was something completely different. I'm all for black and white, but here there is far too much grey! That any of you want to attempt to insinuate someone of Barry's shape or size could be serious about cheating via dope for cycling is probably the most intellectually challenging and laughable effort at making sense I have seen on the hub in a long time!!! Surely the circumstances have not escaped you?? Barry must be well over 100Kgs and the Epic must have been a survival experience of note, that no doubt would leave many on this forum reaching for PEDs if they had to attempt the same feat in Barry's frame, which is NOT built for endurance!!!!

 

Are there really that few people who see the common sense in all of this??

 

Barry, you clearly have balls the size of your guns, for opening up to this crowd! The UCI and CSA efforts will probably be a walk in the park by comparison! Understand why you would take the roids for bodybuilding, which is part of the culture there, but you gotta admit you must stand out like an easy target in the cycling fraternity dude. Best of luck. Please keep us updated so that those of us objective enough to see the wood for the trees here, can see how the process actually goes and hopefully understand this much opinionated and more misunderstood part of what makes up mostly professional cycling, which we would never hear about from real pros attempting to protect a career!

The comment about cheating was a generalization and in direct reply to Myra’s question, “why would someone who is not racing dope” (presumably meaning someone who is doing it for fun and just hoping to finish) and not necessarily why I think Barry tested positive.

My heart tells me Barry is telling the truth, however I’m a stubborn bastid in these kind of situations and tend not to give the benefit of doubt in favor of someone who tested positive.

Also don’t believe that the authorities who enforce the rules have (or should have) the luxury of passing judgment based on “heart based feelings”. As far as I’m concerned all positive doping cases should be dealt with strictly following the rules that are set out and without allowing personal emotions to get involved, in other words factual evidence decides the outcome and not hearsay.

I’m pretty sure that Barry is not naïve and knew full well when he entered the Epic what the rules are around doping and that he would be subject to the exact same rules that the top riders are even though he was not competing to win anything.

WRT to the punishment that is being proposed, IMO a 2 year ban is lenient and not sufficient punishment. Just go and look how many dopers get caught again after they have served their “time”. The financial punishment proposed is probably a far better deterrent, reading this thread proves that as evident by all the protest against it.

Your example of Barry's size in itself is good reason why someone doing the Epic might use a product like Stanozolol, if I’m not mistaken it also aids in muscle recovery.... something which is very relevant to the Epic. Basically that’s all beside the point, it’s a banned product and he tested positive for it and had not denied taking it.

Extreme bad luck in his case that for some (seemingly strange and absurd reason) he was targeted, tested positive for a genuine PED not something swallowed accidental and possibly irrelevant to performance and worth arguing about.

This is all a generalization about doping, dopers and how I feel they should be treated, it’s not aimed personally at Barry. I would be towing the same line if it was some unnamed participant whose identity has not been revealed.

 

I’m pretty sure that Barry is not naïve and knew full well when he entered the Epic what the rules are around doping and that he would be subject to the exact same rules that the top riders are even though he was not competing to win anything.

 

Perhaps we should do a poll on this and find out how many people riding the Epic to finish it, versus racing it for a placing are worried about this?? Based on the above statement, you might be surprised!!!! Which in turn turns the rest of the process into a farce.

Barry, please tell the UCI you will pay them back ALL of the winnings you have EVER made from cycling as acceptance of your guilt... And that amounts to how much exactly?? Yes, we're really sorting out doping in cycling today baby!

Perhaps we should do a poll on this and find out how many people riding the Epic to finish it, versus racing it for a placing are worried about this?? Based on the above statement, you might be surprised!!!! Which in turn turns the rest of the process into a farce.

 

Barry, please tell the UCI you will pay them back ALL of the winnings you have EVER made from cycling as acceptance of your guilt... And that amounts to how much exactly?? Yes, we're really sorting out doping in cycling today baby!

That poll will mean squat, I'm pretty sure Barry was not to worried about it before the time either, so that's not going to prove anything other than he maybe in hindsight he should have been more worried about it.

Its pretty simple, I don't believe fun riders riding in this type of event deserve special treatment, some seem to think they should be treated with more compassion.

We can argue till the sky falls on our heads you wont change my opinion and i'm not going to change yours, that's life lets leave it at that.

Bragging rights?

Well that I just don't get. Who brags about coming nowhere in a race that they are doing for fun. Are there really people like that? And would you take them seriously? I wouldn't.

Add to that the fear of not being able to finish

Now that, to me, is just ridiculous (not you personally - anyone who would dope just to finish a race). I don't know anyone who would do that, do you?

Perhaps we should do a poll on this and find out how many people riding the Epic to finish it, versus racing it for a placing are worried about this?? Based on the above statement, you might be surprised!!!! Which in turn turns the rest of the process into a farce.

I think we should have a poll and ask all the hubbers

1. would they dope if they're not racing (and if yes, why?)

2. would they dope to finish a race.

See, the problem with the epic is all riders start together and all stand the same chance at the start of the race, to win it. It doesn't matter if you are there to social or to race, if you are a pro or a fun rider, at the start everyone has the same chance. Now, what if all 300 guys in front of him suddenly had mechanical and suddenly he's winning, its not impossible, just improbable. They wont tell him, you are a fun rider, you cannot win and if they do, I can bet you he will fight for his win. Another thing is I don't buy into this fun rider thing, that's only a way of trying to get yourself out from underneath the rules. As soon as you start upgrading a bike, because it "performs" better, then you are getting competitive, as soon as you worry about finishing or where you place, you are competitive. Like I said, its not nice being the one that got caught and in your mind you think its a waste of time, but you have an equal chance of winning, so you have an equal chance of cheating. Saying its a waste to test them is like saying its a waste to disqualify the guy that came 300th, but he took several shortcuts on the route to be able to get there.

Sigh, lack of common sense that makes compliance in so many areas non relevant now adays. If the fun rider plonker now finds him or herself in this not so impossible but improbable situation then test his or her pee to hearts desire and if any stuff is detected kick him or her off the podium

 

Well that I just don't get. Who brags about coming nowhere in a race that they are doing for fun. Are there really people like that? And would you take them seriously? I wouldn't. opening a can of worms you are

 

 

 

Now that, to me, is just ridiculous (not you personally - anyone who would dope just to finish a race). I don't know anyone who would do that, do you? it takes all kinds of people and I would not be surprised ....

 

 

 

I think we should have a poll and ask all the hubbers

1. would they dope if they're not racing (and if yes, why?)

2. would they dope to finish a race.

Would any hubbers admit either of these?

Just my thoughts ....

Just my thoughts ....

THE PART WHERE YOU SAY "WOULD ANY HUBBER ADMIT EITHER OF THESE"

PLEASE THE HUB IS FULL OF ANGELS WHO DO NO WRONG EVER

Just my thoughts ....

Well maybe I'm just very naive.

With regard to the poll, isn't there an option to vote anonymously? That's what I had in mind.

THE PART WHERE YOU SAY "WOULD ANY HUBBER ADMIT EITHER OF THESE"

 

PLEASE THE HUB IS FULL OF ANGELS WHO DO NO WRONG EVER

Please accept my humblest apologies. the 'level of holier than thoughness' had slipped my mind

 

A. Well that I just don't get. Who brags about coming nowhere in a race that they are doing for fun. Are there really people like that? And would you take them seriously? I wouldn't.

 

 

 

B. Now that, to me, is just ridiculous (not you personally - anyone who would dope just to finish a race). I don't know anyone who would do that, do you?

 

 

 

C. I think we should have a poll and ask all the hubbers

1. would they dope if they're not racing (and if yes, why?)

2. would they dope to finish a race.

A. Not finishing the epic within the cutoff time is a distinct possibility for a fair number of riders and finishing the entire event within the official cut off time is something to be proud of or brag about if you want to put it that way. Doing the epic or similar type of event carries some prestige even for us back markers and is a serious investment in time and outlay of money so I think its reasonable to say some would do anything to be classed as an official finisher.

B. See A and yes I know 2 people personally who have doped before in events of similar or even less prestige.

C. Try it, I know my response would be No but how do you know I'm telling the truth?

 

 

To be very honest, if I were you, I would now retire this from The Hub and go and fight this battle in silence.

Sensible advice, which I'll follow.

I posted and updated here because I thought it might be informative and a good opportunity for hubbers to get an 'inside look' at how it all works, which I think it has been. I'm sure another 29r vs 26r vs 650b vs clipless vs flats vs what tyres for my 29r would have been better.

To be honest I don't give a continental crap what the naysayer's think of me.

Every know it all can post their opinions here till the cows come home, but the fact is the decision lies with CSA, and that's all that will ultimately count. I've not hidden anything and have thick skin and my head held high. I've not lost any friends or family over this, and that won't happen no matter what the outcome.

For those who are interested in the process, I'll post details as to what's going on as n when I find out.

I'll be back in action and racing competitively for top 300 places in 2015. See u at the races then.

Sigh, lack of common sense that makes compliance in so many areas non relevant now adays. If the fun rider plonker now finds him or herself in this not so impossible but improbable situation then test his or her pee to hearts desire and if any stuff is detected kick him or her off the podium

No, sorry, not a lack of common sense. Its the ability to see people have double standards for everything, as long as it suits them.

Ps. MTBaaisikilist, good luck with the proceedings. Please do not see most of the comments as a personal attack and thanks for having an open head and also giving all the insights from the other side.

ps what bike do you ride?

MTBaaisikilist, appreciate your openness and honesty. And yes it does bring some insight into the process. Also highlights just how naive all of us are to doping. So nothing personal, just general observations, and yes I hate dopers. I have been on the losing side of doping many years ago when as a youngster you are faced with the decision, is that what I need to do to compete when you know you are bett than some of the doped riders.

My take is zero tolerance and there should be harsher punishments. You can't draw a line and "allow" some categories to dope and others not. So the rules have to cover all. I suppose the percentages work in the favour of the fun rider as very little chance of ever been tested. You were unlucky in this case, which as you admit, doesn't make it right.

We all sign and accept terms in these contracts, like the UCI contract, without knowing and understanding the terms. Which is what makes this discussion insightful.

On the Epic, in theory it is The major mtb race in the world and as such no real fun riders. But that's a different debate on the format of the event.

Good luck with CSA.

MTBaaisikilist, appreciate your openness and honesty. And yes it does bring some insight into the process. Also highlights just how naive all of us are to doping. So nothing personal, just general observations, and yes I hate dopers. I have been on the losing side of doping many years ago when as a youngster you are faced with the decision, is that what I need to do to compete when you know you are bett than some of the doped riders.

 

My take is zero tolerance and there should be harsher punishments. You can't draw a line and "allow" some categories to dope and others not. So the rules have to cover all. I suppose the percentages work in the favour of the fun rider as very little chance of ever been tested. You were unlucky in this case, which as you admit, doesn't make it right.

 

We all sign and accept terms in these contracts, like the UCI contract, without knowing and understanding the terms. Which is what makes this discussion insightful.

 

On the Epic, in theory it is The major mtb race in the world and as such no real fun riders. But that's a different debate on the format of the event.

 

Good luck with CSA.

Well said

A. Not finishing the epic within the cutoff time is a distinct possibility for a fair number of riders and finishing the entire event within the official cut off time is something to be proud of or brag about if you want to put it that way. Doing the epic or similar type of event carries some prestige even for us back markers and is a serious investment in time and outlay of money so I think its reasonable to say some would do anything to be classed as an official finisher.

Like I said, I'm probably just naive.

B. See A and yes I know 2 people personally who have doped before in events of similar or even less prestige.

Wow. I'm glad I'm not in the same social circles as you but thanks for the info.

That poll will mean squat, I'm pretty sure Barry was not to worried about it before the time either, so that's not going to prove anything other than he maybe in hindsight he should have been more worried about it.

 

Its pretty simple, I don't believe fun riders riding in this type of event deserve special treatment, some seem to think they should be treated with more compassion.

 

We can argue till the sky falls on our heads you wont change my opinion and i'm not going to change yours, that's life lets leave it at that.

Let's get this clear! Has anyone attempted to say we should condone doping and allow it in sport? Nope, didn't see any posts like that. Has anyone said Barry should not be banned for the 2 years?? Nope, even he is prepared to accept his punishment, however unintentional it was. What are the rest of us really on about then?? We're saying, stop making a farce out of the whole situation because targeting Barry is certainly not going to clean up doping in cycling WHERE IT MATTERS MOST and focusing this on him and other fun riders is a complete waste of bladdy resources!

Oh and Swiss, not trying to change your opinion dude, just trying to add to the debate, which needs some perspective...

Hi all.

just my 2c worth.

i "play" another sport as well. i have been through the physical testing and its no joke the lengths taken to make sure the samples are correct and all info is correct.

i was asked if i was on any medication or had taken any medication over the past 6 months. i was lucky that i had not. its important to remember these things and give all the info needed. if you were sick or had an injury were you were give meds for its important to state it when you have the tests, this covers your ass. remember this for all the people who have never been tested before.

the point to all of this, who out of the pack riders have ever told the doc that you might get tested so we need clean drugs?? WHO i can bet that maybe 1 or 2 at most have asked the doc for clean meds. this is were us mear mortals will fall short if we are tested. You will be bust if you take the wrong over the counter cough meds etc now that is your fault for not ready the anti dugs paper and knowing what is allowed and what is not. Who reads that stuff?

it is not for us to shun other riders especialy those that are not competing for the top places and prizes as we dont know their situations before the race, injury / cold etc.

i do think that there will always be the people who will push the boundaries with drugs or even with GU to ride better faster longer.

if GU helps you to ride better faster longer is it also not a performance enhancing substance? if not then why take it.

ps what bike do you ride?

Why...? Will that determine whether the fine/whatever you wanna call it is affordable for me or not...?

It's one of those MTN Quebeka bikes...

Helpful...?

Anyone taking anything to ride better is a potential doper. How many fun riders in sunny South Africa dope knowingly. I think a very high percentage. A while ago a lot of guys were using some testosterone booster. There is guys openly pushing the stuff. The case in point in all probability happened out of pure ignorance. Body builder not really a top end cyclist somewhere at the back of the pack. Really bad luck to be tested. I think he must have gone HUH you want to test me.It is unusual for a person in that position to be tested due to the costs involved. Did someone perhaps split on him? A buddy perhaps? Who knows.

Why...? Will that determine whether the fine/whatever you wanna call it is affordable for me or not...?

It's one of those MTN Quebeka bikes...

Helpful...?

And a freekin 26" on top of that, what 'podium' hunter would not be on a 29r. I just shake my head .....